help with new predator motor

[terrys]

Ok fellows I followed yalls advice. I took off the tecumpsy 6.5 from my sons yerf dog. I went to harbor fraight today and got the 212cc predator motor. Part #68120 I ordered the new throtal cable that someone on here recomened and a new belt Part #203591. I got the motor out of the box and started looking it over and I cant figure out how to run the throttle cable. It almost looks like there are a couple of places that it could go. Also there is a manual post that looks like it will adjust the engine speed. It is very hard to move it from fast to slow position. After the throtle cable is hooked to the correct location what will pull it back to idle when you let off of the gas pedal? does anyone have any pictures of how it should look? I am very thankful for all the help that everyone has given me on this go kart as I know almost nothing about working on these things.
Thanks again
Terry

[satoys]

here is short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHd9VjU73oU I'll try to get out to mine and take pictures later.
I ran the cable down the middle, angled over to the passenger side at the swing arm, and up the back. I tried coming in from the side, but did not like the way it was working. Use tie wraps, tape, etc to hold it to the frame.
Make sure you are at idle before you tighten the screw. First time I hooked it up it was slightly past idle and took off on me !
The spring that came with it was weak, I went to lowes and got a "box of springs" down at the end of the hardware aisle (where you probably got the shaft screw) and one of them worked. I went 2 aisles over a got a 6" or so "holely" metal bracket and took off one of the screws on the engine to mount it sticking out to the driver side, hooked the spring on, and worked great. (really wish I had the pictures to show you).
I've found on these engines, if you pull more than twice and it does not start, stop and look to make sure the gas is on, the choke is on, the kill switch is not on, etc. They seem to always start with less than 3 pulls.
There is also a link for the kill switch hookup, have to go find it again.
Hang in there, you will learn a lot by making this work !

[x-bird]

dang man, treed again lol ...
most "crate" engines like this are set-up for several applications. Put your Tec motor side-by-side with it to compare what's there.

It's pretty quick, but the video does show what you're looking for if yours is the same.
If you can, post up a picture of the throttle mechanism/area that came on the engine. As SA pointed out, pick up a better return spring, and just for safety's sake keep the original on it too.

Moving the assembly by hand is deceptive, as the foot pedal provides a fair amount of leverage.

[satoys]

here is a link on the kill switch hook up
http://www.mxk.com/engines/lifankill.htm

To read about these engines, hookups, etc. you should know these are Honda GX200 clones, also called blue clones, lifan, 6.5 clone, etc. Search on all those keywords, lots of info out there. What is cool with the new predators, the throttle clamps and barrel nut/stop nut come with it (and 2 at that !).

[satoys]

think this is the side hook up...
http://www.oldminibikes.com/forum/honda-clone-engines/56950-throttle-hook-up-predator.html

this was from a search on "predator throttle hookup" on google, first hit

[terrys]

Thanks again fellows. Could someone show me what the throttle return spring should look like and where it should be hooked up? What do i need to do before i start the engine. I think I read it held one half a QT of oil. Is that and fuel all I need to do? Also how do yall break in the motors?

Thanks

[xlint89]

The throttle lever pivot/retaining nut can be backed out about 1/8 of a turn. That will make your throttle lever open and close easily. (it's set pretty stiff from the factory)

Yes, there are 2 places that the throttle cable can connect to. I came in from the side like the TEC did with the stock cable, and made a bracket to hold it in place. I used one of the pull start cover bolts to anchor the bracket.

I spun the pull start cover to a more natural/better pulling position.

I then bought a spring from Lowes, drilled a small hole in the throttle lever and anchored the spring to another pull start cover bolt. (secondary return spring)

The metal on the throttle stop screw for the throttle lever set up is flimsy. It bends really easily. I had to add a nut and bolt behind mine to keep it from bending. (when trying to limit the speed for the kids, I found just mashing the pedal hard would bend the throttle stop and go WOT)

The metal holding the actual throttle stop screw then started to bend upwards when the pedal was mashed really hard,once again allowing the kart to go WOT. (and making me think THIS could possible hang up and hold the throttle WOT. That would be VERY bad!!!!!!) So I just bent the tab holding the screw down. That way, if the kids mash the gas, and it starts to bend the metal again, it will drive it further downward (still limiting the speed) instead of up, and allowing the throttle to go WOT.

Once/if you start to adjust this, you have a much better vision of what I'm talking about. The kart is no longer here, so I cannot post pics of it for you.

If you aren't going to limit engine/kart speed, there's no need to bother with the throttle stop screw bracketry.

I then spliced the steering wheel toggle/kill switch into the motor kill switch.

I just want to point out, that when you install the new engine make sure the 2 TAV inner pullies are perfectly aligned, and properly spaced so the belt is able to spin without engaging at idle. (neutral)

And make sure to read the owners manual as far as oil amount and break in procedures go.

[satoys]

Thanks xlint89, I forgot to mention rotating the pull start, first thing I did....
Also should say while you have it apart, clean where the old motor was, get rid of rust, re-paint, clean clutch, etc. Might as well get the 'drivetrain' all in good shape for the new motor!

[x-bird]

I meant to put the following info up as a "stand alone" thread but it fits here well ...

Caution: Engine mounting plates and paint!

If you are repainting where the engine sits, clean all the old paint off and put only a light coat of primer and paint on it --i prefer to skip the primer altogether. If it has original powdercoating--remove all of it and repaint with a thin layer.

While not too critical an issue in this instance, if the paint is too thick and you tighten the engine down, over time the paint will crush/squish enough so that the retaining bolts/nuts are loose even though they have not backed off at all. with the looseness comes vibration, pulley misalignment etc.

I experienced this first hand with SFI spec flexplates that had been powdercoated. the paint around the crankshaft flange and the flexplate bolts crushed out after a couple hundred miles and my plate loosened up even though the bolts themselves never "lost" their original position. Sounded like a rod knock, drove me nuts for a week and could have led to a catastrophic failure. After finding a 1/2 dozen instances locally of the same part doing the same thing in other cars, we contacted the manufacturer and they stopped powdercoating the plates.

Anytime I have to torque something of that nature, i make sure that the paint layer is not going to become an issue. When i took the engine and jackshaft plate off the yerf, there were bare spots around the fasteners where this had occurred.

[satoys]

If you are repainting where the engine sits, clean all the old paint off and put only a light coat of primer and paint on it --i prefer to skip the primer altogether. If it has original powdercoating--remove all of it and repaint with a thin layer.
.

Good to know ! I put a light coat of Krylon just so the rust would not get started.
Probably not a bad idea to add to list to check bolts every 10? hours for first 50? hours.... Just to make sure everything is still lined up.

[satoys]

terrys - may be too late, but for future hookups here are the pictures

[terrys]

how do i keep this new motor from going dead when my boy goes around a corner a little fast?
Thanks

[x-bird]

You have it back together and running? :biggthumpup: If it's "going away" in the corners, the float may need to be raised a little bit or the oil level safety cutoff is kicking in. does it sound like it's sputtering or just shutting down abruptly? The former would be the fuel level in the bowl, the latter would be the oil safety cutoff.

[terrys]

Yes no sputtering. Just shuts off in a hard corner. How do I disconnect the oil safety switch? Yes I completly rebuilt the jack shaft and the plate that it sits on. I shifted the motor over so I would have more shaft length. Now there is much more shaft inside the clutch. All I had to do was machine a shim for the jack shaft so everything lined up perfectly. Thanks again for everyone's help. Next I will have to start working on the front end. The tires look to small and the turning radious is terrible . thanks again

[x-bird]

I'm not sure if the oil safety is a normally open or normally closed switch. Probably normally closed. There should be a pair of wires leading to it somewhere low to mid height on the engine block. Start the engine, pull the wires off while it's running. If it dies, connect the wires together and restart. If it starts, hook them together and tape them up. If it stays running when you pull them, just tape the ends so they don't contact ground or each other and secure them somewhere. Also, even though it's obvious, did you check the oil level? A lot of the crate engines have enough to keep the internals lubed for storage but aren't at correct level.

One downside of the yerf's --including the top end spiderbox is poor turning radius. be careful starting in on the front end --- that leads to never ending fabrication and refabrication. Once you change one thing, another rears it's ugly head. I never intended to turn mine into what it is becoming, but I weigh 150 pounds and thrash it pretty hard. The stock setup lasted about a month or so before it was utterly worn out and bent beyond use. Just keep an eye on it for spindle wear, tie rod and steering arms bending. If you haven't, glance through 3.5 pages of my thread to see what i mean.

BTW--how'd you get the wheel off?

[terrys]

I never did get the dang thing off

[satoys]

Its the low oil sensor, every time I do a hard turn it shuts off, here are low oil sensor disconnect instructions.
http://www.mxk.com/engines/lifansensor.htm

[xlint89]

It's the low oil sensor shutting it down.

Disconnect the yellow wire. There's a bullet style connector on the yellow wire coming out of the engine near the kill switch.

That's all you need to do.



CAUTION: By doing this, you MUST check your oil level regularly now. You don't have the luxury of the low oil fail safe.

[speedshopmike]

after you break the connection for the oil level switch the engine side wire is the perfect place to hook up the kill switch to.
make sure you kill the motor when done riding not with ignition but by shutting off the fuel supply and letting the carb run dry.
china clones like to stick their floats open during storage, very annoying.

[FloridaCracker]

I know this is an older thread but I just purchaced one yesterday ($119 at HF) and replaced a techumse 6hp on Son's old cart. Everything matched up well. The shaft was actually a little longer than the techumse shaft (barely). I loosened the throttle pivot and the return spring works well. (side hook-up). The throttle linkage already had a return spring at the peddle which helps. The carb spring basically just keeps the cable straight when returning to idle. Took it down the road for test run and all went well except for a smell of rubber from the CVT belt. This afternoon I will check the alignment as it was pretty dark when I finished and the skeeters were biting.

[travellinmike]

First let me say this thread is great info for doing this install.

OK I've had the motor for a couple weeks now. it's been sitting in my trunk waiting for a free week-end. this week-end there is no Scout camping, no soccer, no piano lessons so hopefully my son and I can get it together over the long week-end.

Do I NEED to get a new throttle cable? Does the stock one not work? Where would I get the cable part # mentioned earlier in the thread? we have a good Kart shop where I live or is it an online purchase?

good info on the low oil shut-off delete and kill switch hook-up to prevent gummy float.

It's supposed to be 95 degrees in the shade tomorrow so perfect for backyard mechanics.

Mike

[travellinmike]

actually I think I just got all the info I need from this other thread.

http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=20704&postcount=6

One question I still have is... What is the purpose of getting the new throttle cable? Is some extra length needed to hook it up? Or just good practice to replace? Seems like a cable shouldn't need replacing 'just because'.

Probably something I could pick up this afternoon from Kart Mart.

Mike

[FloridaCracker]

I didn't need a new cable. The cable end was just bare wire and it slid into the linkage hole and was tightened down by the set-screw. I have a few hours on this motor and I am very happy with it. Starts first pull and has plenty of power.

[metalstudman1]

travellinmike-you only need a new cable if your's for some reason isn't long enough or damaged- Just another option if you need one- Walmart sells a pack of bicycle cables for about $5. with 4 or more cables and ends. Good luck and hope your long hot weekend has some drive time included!!

[travellinmike]

OK so far so good. with 12 yr old (13 on June 14th) doing most of the work we got the motor off with only one stripped bolt. The bolts to the metal belt guard are off. I have the end bolt off and the torque converter removed. There was a thin bushing/sleeve that I took off and now the only thing remaining to get off is the last piece to the TQ. At least I think that is what it is. it is keyed onto the same shaft as the other previously mentioned items but won't slide off. I tried liquid wrench and a 3 jaw puller but stopped when it looked like the thing was bending.

Any clues on how to remove this last bit?

thanks in advance.

Mike 913-724-4604

edit: Found this vid on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIKgXbggvY it shows that the back side of the converter is supposed to just slide off. will try heating the shaft with torch like he said. hopefully that works.

[metalstudman1]

Bummer that it's on there so tight(generally rusted in place)- yes they should slide off with little to no effort. I didn't watch the vid- when you heat something for removal, you want to heat/expand the item that's over the shaft. Did he ruin the clutch Sheave/plate when he heated it? If the old engine isn't going to be used again then using a pry bar while tapping the end of the shaft will usually pop it loose, (using a pry bar can possibly crack the aluminum housing).

[travellinmike]

We got it off after way too much beating, filing the mushroomed end of shaft, heating, heating again. None of which worked. Finally decided since the old motor was trash to just throw a metal blade in the Sawzall and cut the shaft off behind the piece. Don't worry, I didn't hurt the spacer behind it. Just 2-3 taps at the bench vise and the shaft dropped to the floor. Viola... we are in business. Tomorrow AM heading to Home Depot for the longer 5/16 bolt and get it all back together.

Will take some emery cloth to the inside of the troublesome part. Should be running again by noon.

[metalstudman1]

Glad to hear it's off and moving forward.

[travellinmike]

Great news! The kart is up and running. Only took 2 trips to the hardware store. 1 for the bolts we knew we needed (longer one for the shaft, and one to replace stripped mounting bolt). The second trip was unexpected since the Predator uses 4 fine thread 5/16" 24tpi bolts for the belt guard plate instead of the coarse thread 5/16" 18tpi that were on the Tecumseh.

We also picked up 3 lengths of pipe insulation so all the foam is now replaced and the kart is looking good.

One other hint to give future readers...

We did a test start out of the box to make sure it was OK before installing it. filled with oil, added some gas, pulled the cord. Perfect. It started on first pull.
Then when we had it all hooked up we started it again. Perfection again. It started on 1 pull like everyone says. But it died in 30 seconds. Then 50 pulls and no start. Various double and triple checking of on/off, throttle, fuel shut-off, kill switch, choke did nothing to start it again.

30 min later starts again on the first pull, then dies after 30 seconds. Again nothing no matter what adjustment or how many pulls.

After calming down a bit and looking at the troubleshooting section of the manual decided to check EVERYTHING. It turns out the oil was low. Didn't think of that since we already filled it.

When you fill the motor with oil for initial start the level is good. But you need to refill it again because the oil level is now lower once the oil is sucked up through the motor.

My guess is the low oil sensor was shutting it down. topped off the oil and no troubles except that it cuts off not only on sharp turns (if you can even do a sharp turn in a Yerf) but quite often.

It does have more pep than the old tired motor but now I must research clutch adjustment and belts. I think once it warmed up the belt may stretch a bit because after 30 min or so it would need to be floored before the belt engaged.

Too bad there is no forward/backward adjustment of motor or I'd just loosen the motor mount bolts and slide it forward about 3/8" or so.

All in all an easy swap and happy with the results.

Thanks to those who replied with assistance.

Mike

[FloridaCracker]

Good job!
My belt guard bolts from the tecumpse were the same thread as the Predator. Only thing I had to modify was the kill circuit.