Carter Talon Gy6 Kart Project!!
 

I am new here, but, have been reading some threads and this looks like the place to be for everything go-kart related. I know very little about small engines and am trying to learn them. The last project i had was repairing an old 3hp roto tiller that was from the 70's. I was able to rebuild the carb on it and it fires first pull every time. I am picking up the Carter Talon Kart tonight for $125, it looks like it's in need of lots of repairs. I will take pictures of it tonight if it still is light out when I get home. Things I've noticed when paying for it was that the cover was removed from what I belived to be the CVT. And he said the engine was "locked up", and the steering wheel was broken. I've seen some Gy6's on ebay, but, didn't know how hard it was, and what tools I would need to try to rebuild the engine. Or, if its smarter to just buy a diffrent engine and adapt it to the cart.
I seen the sticky thread with the Gy6 manual, is there any other manuals that anyone has for my Kart?

Thanks,

Here are the photos of it from the craigslist add.
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I can't recall where i found them, but i managed to download all the carter talon/gsx manuals (parts, service and setup) as pdf files. there's a thread on this site that has a large number of links to pdf manual downloads for various buggies. (i have a carter talon engine i'm working on)

Dug up the service manual for you --actually my first visit to the buggy wiki ..

http://wiki.buggydata.com/wiki/File:...ice_Manual.pdf

Ok... don't know what I have, or don't have... If you can look at the pictures and tell me... contemplating just buying a complete engine on eBay... i don't know what parts i'm missing and what goes where. I may be in alittle over my head but and feel overwhelmed. Parts i know I need...

Thorttle cable.
Steering Wheel peice, (may just weld the old one)
Muffler
Some sort of sprocket and chain..
Random Nuts and bolts that are MIA.

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Random Box Of Parts...
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Looks like it's mostly there and not in too bad of shape. Can't see what you're talking about re. broken steering unless the ball joint on the left strut is broken off. Not a real big deal to replace that. biggest issue is that it seems to have been stored exposed outside with the carb off. The engines are pretty simple to work on, the rust on the output shaft and clutch will likely kill those parts. As far as popping in a replacement GY6, sometimes not as simple as it sounds --most are for scooters, you have to be careful of variations in the ones that will fit a buggy. i see half of the reverse gearbox, i think the other half may be under the cover. the lock up could be anywhere from the transmission to the cylinder. Before tearing into too much on it, i'd get the engine on the bench, grab a gy6 manual and check the transmission first. (easiest thing to open up and inspect)

Long bolt and tube sitting in the cvt cover are for hanging the engine in the swingarm--tube fits between the bushings on the engine and the bolt goes through the swingarm tabs, bushings and tube.

After comparing pictures.... I think i'm missing my whole gear box/transmition.

This is the one i'm watching on ebay... Please no one swipe it from me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270976177697...84.m1423.l2649

before you buy that one, search the forums here for "2-bolt head" and do a little reading. There are differences and it affects whether or not you'll have a service life on the engine because of availiblity or lack thereof of parts for them. Also definitely ask the seller of the one you're looking at if it's a 2 or 4 bolt head and what the engine "model" numbers on the case are. He's not showing the front of the engine at all, so no way to tell what it is. Without those, you may end up no better off than you are now. Been there, done that and still working on it .....

As far as the transmission goes, it's integral to the GY6 engine, underneath/behind the clutch. the round thing in your cvt cover in the box is one half of the reverse gearbox.

What one is better a 2 or a 4 bolt head?

What does the other "half" of the reverse gear box look like? and where can i get a whole new reverse gear box?

4 bolt head type has plenty of parts and upgrade/mod parts available. The 2-bolt carter/SYM engines don't--sadly they're really well built. Curious if that's what you have right now. If you don't do anything with that engine in your talon and it's a 2-bolt, lmk.

Other half of the reverse has a "fork" a 3-gear cluster on a round plate, a gear through the middle of that and the case itself is round like the half you have there with a protruding part that the fork and spring sit in and hte cable connects to.

e-bay has new ones at about $100 shipped.

The one on eBay he says is a four bolt, I am trying to get the engine out, do I have to remove the axel ? Also, Can someone take a pic of there electrical box there is one thing missing in it...and I'm not sure what it is.... There is so much missing on the carb and the engine the eBay engine is looking better and better

your engine appears to just be "stuffed" in there, you do need to disconnect the rear hangar/chain tensioner, it's the single nut on the top of the swingarm at the rear. I don't see anything else that's connected unless there's a wire or two or vacuunm line sto the airbox still plugged in. they're a bit cumbersome to get in and out of the swingarms, takes awhile to get the hang of it.

Is this the "final gear assembly" that i would need for the engine?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mission-case...item519f413963

My wife doesn't like the idea of me spending all that money on an engine... so i guess i make what I got work. I guess the first order or business is to get me a new carb. and figure out what electrical components I'm missing and rebuild the engine.

Before you jump in buying any parts at all, (one of the "original" sins of new buggy owners is to spend money on things they don't actually need or are not quite right) get your engine up on a work area and take some pictures to post. That particular transmission assembly will not work with a reverse gearbox. It came from a buggy that did not have them and the final shaft is too short. Your engine still has it's transmission assembly in it. the final shaft looks kind of rusty. your carb is in the box, it may just need a thorough cleaning. to be honest, i dont' think you need to buy a lot, just lay out what you have, give it all a thorough cleaning and we'll help you figure out what's usable first.

Lack of TLC, elbow grease and a methodical repair or problem analysis plan has led to many of these buggies ending up like yours when the owners gave up on them instead of going through things one by one. the carbs gumming up from "today's" ethanol mix gas are the biggest culprits, followed buy aging electrical parts failing.

electrically, it looks like you're missing the starter solenoid (round rubber holder in the electrical "box")

Ah, starter solenoid... thats what i was guessing from looking at the wireing diagram. Yep... thats me, :) new buggy owner, trying to buy parts I don't need... I plan to pull everything out and apart and see what I got. The guy that owned it before me, said he bought it off some kid, I imagine the kid was a little rich kid and just tore it apart when the carb got gummed up, and lost peices... and had no knowledge of anything. I apprecaite all your help so far!

" Problem Analysis Plan" That's some neat terminology! I like the way that sounds! So that's what we do now? All these years I've used the S.w.a.g. approach.. Sophisticated Wild Ass Guessing.
Whew, I got to get up with the times.
That's very good advice, X-bird. So many have become overwhelmed and frustrated by not following this advice.

what else do you expect from a retired automotive tech writer? LOL ....

Well, i've spent several hours watching diffrent videos about the Gy6 disasembily and repair, including the carb on youtube. I am much more confident now, and can't wait to pull the engine and get it apart to find the problem.

Ok, well, I finaly got the engine out, and on the bench. I was able to get the engine to turn, Didnt' turn too bad. but, looking in the intake port it looked super nasty, same goes for the exhaust port. So i wanted to see how bad the piston looked. So I poped it open. I made sure to turn it to TDC before takeing anything off. Here are some pictures, the question I have is should i buy new valves, and piston, or should i try to use a dremel and remove all the rust? let me know what you guys think...?

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Well I was able to use some rust remover spray and cleaned the, up a bunch looks almost brand new, I think I can make it run, my numbers on my engine are 157fm *05063213A. Where can I find a gasket kit for this engine? I am going to start cleaning the carb and ordering parts for it, I know it needs it's auto choke.

I do believe that has got to be the nastiest motor I have ever seen!:ack:
I'm not sure if it would be economical to rebuild it. The aluminum head would clean up fine but to replace the valves/springs guides and all the other stuff affected by rust would likely cost more than buying a new complete head. The cylinder and piston appear wasted. The rust most likely has corroded the sleave beyond repair. May want to consider a top end kit. For that matter, you can find new complete motors for less than $300.
When parts costs start excedeing more than a couple of hundred bucks, as this one probaly will, it's can be more economical to simply replace it, unless you are looking for a challenge and want to learn with it. There's nothing wrong with taking that path.

I agree with ckau-nastiest,corroded,rusted motor internally I've ever seen.Only way I'd tore it down after looking at the valves would've been if it was an OLD RARE engine. Taking a compression test/reading prior to disassembly would've answered all your questions!! My next biggest concern looking at this engine before tear down would be if the jug is warped- that's a lot of cooked oil at the base.

So your saying i should trash it? I think the oil is from a bad gasket, I hope any ways, it actually looked like the oil cam out the top gasket and went ender the engine over time. I got it cleaned up pretty well, ordered a new carb, and we will see what happens... Just got to order a battery to see if it will start, once my parts come in, if not... I will just have to save up I guess.

When you have what appears to be a longterm bad oil leak,is it a bad gasket? or warped jug? or warped head? This is your project, money & time- you need to do what you feel is best. We can only provide opinions - education always has a cost, as long as you're having fun then cost is irrelevant. I'm hoping you get lucky & it runs for you.

Not that I'm ready for it yet, but, i've been pricing parts, Would this exhaust work for my kart? The whole exhuast is missing on my kart right now...
http://www.**********.com/store/inde...products_id=84 The *** are buggy_depot without the _

I have also looked for reverse gear boxes and mine is missing all but the very last peice, is this the one I need, and is there anywhere I can get one cheeper?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120917014868...84.m1423.l2649

when you say the very last piece, do you mean the end cap that goes on the second half of the case where the fork's shaft comes through? If that's what you missing, i wouldn't buy a new gearbox just for that. I have a 2nd buggy to build that is also missing one and intend to fix it by drilling and tapping some square aluminum stock. Can't see spending $100+ just to fix that issue.

How bad was the carb that you've already bought a new one? was the aluminum pitted internally?

If you could live without reverse, look up "Howhit" on e-bay, a company called BMI Karts has the leftover inventory of Yerf Dog including a lot of parts from recalled buggies. They sell complete and partial engines for pretty cheap. Those particular ones don't have an output shaft long enough for reverse. You could get one of those running and in the buggy, then add reverse when the money becomes available later by swapping the shaft.

I am talking about the reverse gear box, if thats the last peice on the end of the drive shaft?

Carb wasn't super bad, but, someone had taken it apart before, and some peices looked like they were missing and the diafram was sticking inside it. I have rebuilt a carb before, and figured I already knew how to do that, so I just ordered one.

I want reverse because in the begining i'll be riding it around my yard, in town, and well, i have a really small yard.

Ok, got my new carb in the mail, starter solenoid, and my battery, Bolted everything up... but... having some issues figuring out wiring. If someone could take a picture of their electrical box maybe it will help me figure out where everything goes….
Is there polarity on the solenoid ? And the other end of the Solenoid Yellow stripe green, and yellow stripe red,
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Also the plug I have on the automatic choke is different than any plug in the box, so I assume I’ll have to “adapt” it. But, I’m not sure where it should have plugged into.
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The solenoid should not have a polarity, but some have one side grounded to the case so you should use the yellow/green for ground and yellow/red for power. Ignition/stater switches can be wired with a common ground ground that connects when the key is turned or a common power lead that connects to the associated contacts. If your switch uses a common power lead, ground the yellow/green solenoid wire and run the yellow/red to the starter pole of the switch. If your switch uses a common ground, run the yellow/red to the battery and the yellow/green to the starter pole of the switch.