first glimps
 

Here's some teaser pics of a project I have been working on from time to time. How do you think a single seat yerf will work? A stock chassis split down the middle then refitted.

I think it Sux...:joke:I think you want to be as fast as me.:swordfight: I think Van is going to send you his next power bill !:suspect:

I'm excited for you Ckau- give 'em a run for their bragging rights:) I think it'll be perfect for handling maintaining the wheel width and being centered to lean and get the lead on Rich1 & Van in the turns!!!!!

making some progress! I'm not able to spend the time on this as I originally hoped!:banghead: but it's starting to take shape.

It's looking AWESOME-I likey!

I think you forgot a few parts !:buttkick::biggrin:

Oh no! what did I forget?

By the pics posted quite a few are missing !::argue:

Looking great. I have planned on doing the same to my yerf and possibly droping in a Honda 400ex to drag, but you know about those time restraints. Anyway I'm jellous.

TOM

Got the basic chassis done. Kinda hard to tell it's a yerf!:lol:

Yerf on steriods!

I got to spend some time over the holidays to make a little progress. Got the front spider box modified. There's a lot of subtle changes there . panel were cut out to help reduce weight, A-arm tabs double plated and added bracing on the interior of the box
I mocked up the front suspension to check for fit. I thought it looked interesting. The wheel base looks so wide next to the narrowed chassis but its the stock wheelbase width. Today I'll do the heim conversion and zerks on the a-arms then the front will be about 95% finished.

hub/brake combo looks pretty sweet. What's the smallest size rim it will fit? I've been trying figure out a way to stuff front brakes into the 8-in. golf cart rims.

I like, this is what I want to do with my Yerf as well a single seat with either an EX plant and of coarse my dream 883 Harley. But it may just remain a dream since them motors bring really big bucks, but who knows luck runs my way every now and then.

Grind ,weld ,grind ,weld!:crying: Since you dont have the floorpan installed yet ... you can weld tabs to the frame and bolt an Alum pan in that would be lighter and replaceable. Im going to do that on my Dazon rebuild .:biggthumpup:

Nice work!!

8"wheels are a little too tight. only about an 1/8 of clearance off the calper.

Rich1- exactly why the pan is not in. I haven't welded the tabs in yet! :laughing:

It's coming along, slowly. I might have a "rolling chassis in a few weeks. All the "goodies are starting to come in. Delivery truck hits the driveway every few days now, wheels, tires, belts, gas tank, lights, all sort of neat stuff! I got to get this thing running.. it's almost riding season!!!!
Just unpacked the wheels, Douglas .190 aluminum, 10x8s for the front, 10x10 for the rear.

I too love when the UPS comes with the goodies but then the USPS has to come with those envelopes:lol:
Looking forward to see your finished product.

TOM

Sweet wheels, bet they're fingertip light! I can only dream of that level of goodness ))

I like USPS because they deliver on Saturdays! That's one more day of the week I have to expect my stuff to come in. I'm in the middle rebuilding my spiderbox (not to the extent of you ckau) just breakdown, tear apart, repaint then rebuild. Should be done by sunday.

I got the a-arms finished with heims, grease zerks, acetal bushings and shock mounts. Still have to weld in and brace the upper shock mounts. It took some head scratching, a couple of different patterns and a lot of shifting around to find the sweet spot for optimum shock travel with those upper mounts.
Had one minor set back, I originaly planned to use a 8" wide wheel on the front but after getting it assembled enough to check wheelbase I found I was too wide. So I had to order a pair of 5" wide wheels to get me under a 54" wheelbase limit I was shooting for. It's real close, 53.3. Too much camber and I might not pass!
I'm sure glad I haven't ordered the tires yet! The 8" wheels I can use for spares but I woud have had to eat the tires.
Still have to mount the rack and pinion, extend the tie rods and fabricate some stand-offs. The front will be finished and then get started on the rear swing arm. This will involve machining more bushing, beefer motor mounts, extra axle bearing supports, new caliper and shock mounts.

What are the spindles from or what type? Love the way it looks so far-
I ended up making my lower shock mount with 3 adjustments trying to get the right feel for the frontend (still have the SC shocks).

that's a mean lookin buggy, It's gonna be light! what shocks are those? I run the SC shocks upfront on my buggy also, but I rode with a big guy one day and they haven't been the same every since, lol. I've lost all the dampening out of them, and now they seem to bounce everywhere, they used to be perfect and now they seem a little more on the soft side.

Very cool :biggthumpup:

Are you going with the GY6 engine?

The spindles, plus the hubs and calipers are part of a brake conversion kit offered by BD. The BD spindles are modeled after my early upgrades. They have always worked well for me so I stick with them. These days I take advantage when someone else does the homework and fabrication.
I had originaly planned on shock mounts with adjustability but there just wasn't the room. I have messed so much with the 3206 front end in the past I had a good idea of placement so I used a fixed mount. After fabbing 3 different variations of upper mounts to try I discover the original lower mount I cut from the a-arm worked perfect!
Ain't that the way it works?:cussing:

Those shocks? I got no clue what they are. Some china thing I found on E-bay. They fit into my criteria of length, travel, adjustability, guesstimated spring rate and the ability to experiment with gas pressure. plus they are cheap enough so I'm not out much if I trash one up while fiddleing with them. I figure I'll probably blow the seals while trying to dial them in. My plan is to use them to find a setting then use the numbers to have a good custom set made up. Who knows, they may hold up great and work well but with my luck? probably not!

yea, I'm using the gy6 power plant. I had considered using something else but I reason it doesn't matter how much horsepower you got, if the chassis can't handle the terrain it's irrelivant. We have already shown a gy6 in the right set up can run with the best of them! plus I don't think the capibilitys of a gy6 have been fully exploited yet, there's still some ponies to be found yet.

that's turning out to be one solid looking machine! I think those are the same shocks i was mulling over. my concern with them is whether or not the reservoir "neck" is going to survive rough terrain riding. Bought my wife a brand new set of made in china garden tools at Ace last year that were cast of some type of aluminum/pot metal. Really nice contoured grips, looked like decent quality. Two of them snapped the first day of use and it wasn't like she was digging in hardpan. Since then, my trust in overseas cast materials of that type is just a little lacking. same goes with basic fasteners.

T3-- are you seeing oil seepage around the shafts? sounds like the seals are blown.

I personally like the GY6 for its simple design and parts are cheap. If you haven't done so already the head is where you will make the most HP anyway. I also have determined that the cams available can be improved upon to get more HP out of the engine. Right now my power range is up around 9000rpm. Last year @ the bash drags I had my head up my but and got a late start. I was running against a modded yerf. On top of the late start I spun the tires in the sand so I had to let off. I could see the difference in the cam for @ the 150' mark I caught and beat the yerf after falling almost a buggy behind off the start. The power @ the higher rpm was awsome. I now have put some 3:90 final drive gears in and still am pulling above 9000rpm but it starts sputtering as if its starving for fuel so I am going to richen up the carb a bit to see if it helps. I have a custom cam with 30 deg valve overlap and that really makes the top end power. Can't wait to see some vids of the single seat yerf.

Thanks Ckau, are they similar to these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/320mm-12-5-8...ht_5381wt_1397
I was thinking about grabbing a set, I just don't want something that's to tight on the front, my brother has some that are so tight that he is always on 3 wheels in the trails!

Mine sputters a little above 9000rpms too, I'm running a 130jet, so I was gonna go up to a 132.5 to see if that helps. As long as you have a decent weight on your buggy the 150 will keep up in the trails with most other reasonably 250 powered buggies.

X-bird I have not checked to see if they are leaking, but that's what i suspect, I figure I can't fix them if they are so I should start looking for something better, I figure my budget will be around $80-90 bucks for a set.

T.J.

Those appear to be the same. the length is right and the so is the manufactor mark. I know very very little about these shock and at this point have done nothing with them other than get them mounted. The seller/distributor was nice enough to reply to my inquiry with what he knew about them, "25 to 35 lbs of air or nitrogin pressure and was rated @ 350 lbs each" and offering any assistance if I had any problems with them.
I don't know if or how well they will work for us. The price was right enough for me to use them for setup and experimentation.. Lets hope the seller shows the same enthusiasim as in his first e-mail if I reply about busted/crappy shocks.:laughing:
Going back over e-bay I now see the market is flooded with these shocks. Seems like every sort of china parts vender on e-bay is selling them now. I don't know if that is a good sign or just some factory sales rep. offering some really crazy profit margin deals.
If your brother is lifting wheeels, he may not be tight enough

Yeah, I might just wait and see what you think about them before I push the buy button! lol :)

My brother's shocks are similar but he paid much less from an ebay liquidator, the ones you have are a much higher quality... I think the air cans are on his just for looks! adjusting them makes no difference. I don't know how they work, but he let all the air out and they still are tight. If I stand on the front of his buggy and jump they move about .5-1"! maybe 2" if I jump hard. If he rolls over a rock on one side then he is on 3 wheels for sure.:)

T.J.

Oh I missunderstood, I thought he was lifting during a turn. If he's not following the contours then yea, he's too stiff. . but then again most of these buggy tend to lift wheels on obsticles that excede the suspinsion travel limits.
I can tell already these shocks are a lot softer than the Works shocks on the other buggys. I can compress these slightly by hand whereas the Works won't budge. I'm hoping with the weight reduction of this buggy the softer shock will be a good thing.

I've lifted wheels but it takes a very unequal obstacle for me to do it on, his on the other hand does it a lot.

So does adding air/nitrogen to the shock make them stiffer? or does that effect the dampening?

the gas/oil in the shock handles the speed of the compression and rebound of the spring. the spring's rate in pounds per inch of compression is what holds the buggy up. too high of a spring rate and it'll do like your brothers and not compress when it should. too low of a rate and it'll sag too much and end up relying on the gas or oil valving to do it's job in the bumps and will bottom out too easily. You can stiffen and soften the shock's action and increase or decrease the speed of the shock's return to its "static" loaded position with both pressure and valving changes, but it isn't a method to use to compensate for something that just isn't a good match for the weight of the vehicle.

I have a set of those exact shocks I purchased for the front of my Blade 250, they were great shocks but only lasted one trip to St Joes @ the Buggy Bash. They started leaking and in short time they become worse then the stock ones I had taken off. It may have been a fluke but they seemed to hold up well until I hit the rough terrain then they blew out.

That sucks to hear, It's just hard to find a set of good shocks for the yerf, for the budget conscious consumer! lol < $100 bucks for a set.

It sure is, ATV shocks are a gamble since compared to our buggies an ATV is a totally different animal. The UTV shocks will work better but only on the heavier buggies. The 150's and 250's are in a class of their own. Not much experience with yerf's even though I own one but the buggy depot yerf replacement shocks are suppose to be good ones.

i'd go with tom's advice on BD on this one as the used market also opens you up to putting money into rebuilding. you may think you have a good deal until you get them and find they need new shafts etc. I bit the bullet and opened up the budget to get used fox shox just so i had something fully servicable.

I had unknowingly bought used Yamaha Blaster shocks that were stiffer than any I saw on other buggies. They were still better than stock, but I ended up replacing them with BD rear shocks to get a comfortable ride for my wife. I was lucky to find someone that wanted a stiffer Blaster shock set and was able to recover most of my original purchase, but it is always a gamble getting something used.

Since then I have purchased new shocks form people that could not get them to work in their application and have purchased some other used ones. I'm again at a point where the used ones are sprung too light and now I am waiting on a spring compressor so I can mix and match springs with shock bodies to find the right combination.

If you look at the UTV enthusiasts, they can spend thousands on a suspension setup - I'm cheap plus have hard time spending more on shocks than the buggy...

What one must remember is that these buggies were designed for kids and still are, so keeping the price to a minimum is essential, combine this with the fact that the stock shocks are designed around the geometry and weight distribution of the buggy, so an atv shock although may be better in one area but worse in another. Now I'm not trying to sell but just stating the facts. Back in 2006 Blade offered me a set of Works shocks to try out so he could get the needed feedback as to what kind of difference they made. I received the shocks and installed them and was impressed with their good looks and the smoother ride. I called to order another set for my son's buggy and was knocked over at the price he give me for the 4 shocks of $900.00 half of what I paid for the buggy. I said no #%$&in way. The more I drove the buggy though I realised not only the smooth ride but the improved handling and stability. Prior to the shocks I rolled the single seater twice, bent an axle, broke the final drive shaft and broken a front strut all in the first 2 years. After the shocks were installed I can run much faster on all terrain and have yet to flip the buggy. I have also had to replace no parts since. When I used to ride my land 30 mph was about as fast as I could go since the buggy bounced so much there was very little control, which is how I flipped it. I have much better control and can top 40 with no problem and this is an honest 40 and not going by the factory speedo. I can take the curves and turns without letting off the throttle. I still have a $2000.00 buggy but it handles like a $10,000.00 buggy with just shocks alone. I had called Works and wanted some shocks for the Carbide and since they did not have them in their file I had to give them answers to about 30 questions including the weight of each axle along with total weight. The person who spent the just under $1000.00 for the 4 shocks was so impressed he said it was the best money next to the engine mods he had spent on the buggy since he can now realise the full potencial of the mods. I have since sold 2 more sets to his buddies. Spring rate is only one part of the equasion, there is bore size, piston diameter, as well as the valving to figure in. An ATV has a shorter wheel base weight distribution on all 4 wheels, controll arm movement ect. I have to agree with most that these are pricy and when money is tight one has a rough time justifying the purchase. I'm currently needing shocks for my Joyner 650, but instead of buying the same shock I am saving for a set of works. Until then I'll have to nurse these and maybe in the intrim I can find a set of good used Joyner shocks from someone I associate with. I had always thought that a shock was a shock but now know differently.

Well if I had a grand, I'd just buy a new buggy! lol
I want to ride comfortable and have a little better steering but 1000 dollars worth is way out of my budget! My girl would kill me.

Well put tom. That's a lot of the reason too that helped me justify spending the money for something other than a "go-kart" shock. The other thing to remember is that you can "accommodate" a set of shocks that's close, but not quite right by changing its mounting position. You can increase or decrease your total suspension travel doing this as well. The one thing to watch for though, is how much load you'll be putting at what point on the suspension arm. I'm smack dab inthe middle of playing with front shock set-up right now.

YEP! that's about what I expected to hear. A full set (4) cost me less than one of my Works. But they are intended for set up. There's nothing truer than that saying "you get what you pay for in off-road shocks" I'll blow at least a grand or better on just the shocks when it's all said and done. That's getting close to what I'll have invested in the rest of the build total but the shocks are whats going to make or literialy break this machine!
It doesn't matter how good the buggy looks , how much HP you got, how much the wheels cost... if you got to baby it down the trail it's all for nothing! Bad shocks will suck the life out of a chassis with the wear,tear and strain they inflict, not to mention the strain on your body!
I got no problem justifying this expense :biglaugh:

Cost at what cost ?Justified ? Bad shocks ruin everything I went thru 3 sets,along the way, bent spindles ,worn tie rods , damaged bearings, bent axles and ruined rack and pinions .Since I got the Works shocks front and rear nothing suspension wise has broke ! So it depends on what you are used to ., If Honda made a buggy ( they were looking into it but China lowballed them ) it would have a good motor , good handling and great suspension, but would cost $ 7 to 10k. Yeah the old ..Speed costs money.. how fast do you want to go ? Race improves the breed...its true.I once asked if there was any Racing Chapters for these things , I got laughed at.Now i know why! The Buggies that i have seen so far i would waste money to race. Why? The quality of the parts are not up to the task. I spent several months looking for a rubber bellows set for my rack and pinion. I had 2 sets rot off over the winter finally replaced with Hammerhead ones .If you cant get better parts you risk youre life on inferior ones ! My Dazon came with decent parts except the shocks. So now Ive been selecting the best parts that other brands have to offer. Hammerhead rear axle ,stronger ,lighter. Front end parts Kinrode.But thats where the aftermarket comes in sort of ...or short of. Is it right to spend $1,000 dollars on shocks for a $4,000 dollar buggy.Most likely depends on youre driving skill or youre wallet !:doh:

I personally just can't justify paying 1 grand on shocks, for a $300 buck buggy... but that's just me. The ones I have right now are fine, I could use some a little better but I think I would regret the $1000 purchase for a long time. lol

anywho, Ckau hurry up and get done so you can put those shocks through the ringer! I'm also looking forward to the finished product!

If you haven't already, add up everything you've spent on your $300 buggy --including things you already had and paid for in the past. free junk parts, well they're free, until you add in the materials to cut and clean them up. don't forget all the cutting, grinding, sanding, solvents/cleaners and paint. Thankfully i have 3 of them now to spread the costs s i move parts from one to the next to upgrade them up or down the line so the average total has dropped significantly. if i had to add in the value of my time ... well, ....

It doesn't matter how good the buggy looks , how much HP you got, how much the wheels cost... if you got to baby it down the trail it's all for nothing! Bad shocks will suck the life out of a chassis with the wear,tear and strain they inflict, not to mention the strain on your body!
I got no problem justifying this expense :biglaugh:[/QUOTE]

Ckau knows what i mean.. we both run at the same track and trails.Time to up-grade !Now that Ive got the new oval track ready...:eek: its going to be even faster. Catch me if you can !:rofl:

I've probably put in about <=$500 or so into my buggy, that's upgrades paint, parts, materials, and the trailtech vapor, so that's about 800 total... now add 1 grand for shocks! no way. lol. I don't baby it down the trails at all, but I also don't try to break it too much either. I just want to have fun, without breaking the bank.

What about labor? Is your life not worth anything? When you purchase anything a large part of the price is labor. To define shocks " you can be as strong as an ox with a perfect heart and lung capacity, but your upper body is 2+ times more weight then your lower body and your knee's are underdeveloped or in need of replacement." Need I say anything more. The point of this is $1000.00 for shocks is not outragous, just go and price a stock shock for a 4 wheeler, they only use 3, then do the math. I have rebuilt several suspensions on atv's, bushings, joints, bearings, cv joints, ect but the shocks are usually declined on since they had not bugeted for them. They bought a 12 yr. old hard ridden atv. Two years later they will be back putting another 500+ into their atv mostly due to the bad shocks. Again do the math on this for they would of had another 12 yrs of hard ridding before replacing worn or broken parts but for declining on the shocks they got 2 years. The shocks are central to the suspension. It would be nice if a decent more economicle set were available for our buggies but they are not. Many have already tried other shocks off atv's or sled's. They will fill one gap but fall short on another. Just follow Metalstudmans thread and you can realise the thought that has to go into a steering suspension. Everything looks great in the head or on paper but then reality comes into play. When changing one aspect of design it will effect another. Shocks are no different once you understand their function and design in relationship to a particular front end or rear end design. rich1 said it best back a few threads when you figure the money paid and the honest labor spent this includes time spent searching e-bay or like for the perfect shock only to find it was not good, did not work ect. It turns out not such a deal unless of coarse one's life is worth nothing. But we all know everyones life is worth something and to some it is more then they realise. But realising lifes worth I believe only comes with age which is a natural accurence. So go back and figure all time spent on your buggy, put a price amount on what you feel you are worth per hour then add it all up. I'm sure you will conclude you have much more then $800.00 in your buggy.

The time I spent on my buggy is worth something but I wouldn't put money on it... It's called fun and experience! Just like I wouldn't charge to go out side and play with my kid, or spend time with other members of my family... can't put a dollar amount on everything now can we?

Now if I did add up the hours of work I put into my buggy, I'd be out of 2000+ dollars or more, but it's just not correct to put a monetary amount on things of that nature. I'm sure that we all can agree on this.

The reason we call it a hobby is to justify the time spent doing it!!!

I do it in my free time sooo.... it's free, lol

No I agree with you, all I'm saying is that $1000.00 on shocks is all on how you look at it. When compared to the person who experimented failed broke parts and replaced it is relative to which path you choose. Most will think they stole a buggy for 300.00 but when you figure everything in you may have come out cheaper buying a new one. Many like to take something old and fix like new weather for hobby or relaxation. In all it comes down to a matter of choice. The $ ammount is just used as a comparrison. My ex wife complained when I spent money on something then would complain again when I spent too much time to save the money she complained about. So you see its all relative there is cost for what ever you do. It comes down to the choices to best bennifit what you want to do. Playing with the kids costs time which time is value but the time spent is enjoyed at present but will pay off in the long run. Educating one self will also bennifit one in the long run. But now play with the kids all the time and do no work, or educate yourself all the time and do no work you will go without and hungry. which bennifits no one. The whole point is balance. We all know that 2+2=4 so why waste time on trying to come up with a different solution to the equasion. Back to the origional point of this thread. We all buy these buggies because they are fun and cheap. But cheap comes with a price tag. We find the flaws and come up with a solution, some solutions are cheaper then others. We pass what we find on to others so that they don't have to go through the time and money only to come at the same results as we have. Like I said earlier metalstudman has found flaws in his work and has relayed them to us so that we can learn and not waste time and money, and many others have put their imput in as well. Either way you can spend money and time trying to find the right shock that will take the pounding, or even if not in the budget save for the proper shock that is designed for our buggies with hopes in the meantime something as effective and cheaper comes along or we can spend our time and money repairing what breaks by trying to get something proven to not work to work like trying to make 2+1=4. I love bettering my buggy, and have tried many things to make it better. When I realise that something will not work I go to the next possible solution. As I stated earlier my Joyner needs front shocks really bad and I cannot afford a set of Works, so in the intrim I will look for a set of shocks someone had taken off their Joyner or even buy a set of new stock until I can afford the works.

once your married with children, there's no such thing a "free" time LOL .... I've gotten a lot of grief for the amount of time i've been in the garage the past 5 months. the work i enjoy, but i've skipped a lot of family time too though i try not to. And if i hadn't stumbled into this pastime,. i'd have been working on the MGA or firebird just as much--or so i tell the significant other ... Now, I used to freelance regularly for my past full-time employers in my spare time at $175. a page, and i could crank out 2-3 pages per hour pre-edit. how much is my "free" time worth? Close to lawyer's fees. -- i funded a lot of investments with free time. (I like using that one on telemarketers ... "and to whom shall i send the bill for my time that you just paid for?" CLICK. )

:laughing::laughing:I know what you mean.

hey ckau, aren't you building a buggy here somewhere? lol ... sry for the hijacking!

for T3, what it really boils down to is to think about your buggy as a long term investment -- the best way to protect it is to have tires, shocks and suspension that absorbs what you put it through. imagine in 5 years time if you had a big supply of SC shocks, how many you would go through and how much other work you'll be doing along the way in terms of not only money but time. curious as to how many hours were on the set you had, as it wasn't too long ago that you got them (i know the circumstances were likely beyond the yerf's limits) It's why i quit band-aiding mine and decided to build something i hope will last without worries for a long time.

Sorry ckau- Mine went about 40 hrs before noticable sag.

Yeah, sorry Ckau... I know when your ready you'll pop back in here and take back over! lol

Sorry as well.

No apologies accepted! :biglaugh: I thrive on the exchange of views, opinions and insight shared in in these posts. It helps to put things in perspective. I'll post more of the build when it gets to a interesting point again.

Yeah well ..:dunno:....It really depends on what you plan to do with the buggy anyway!:biggthumpup:Sometimes the quality I must use in my Gunsmith work invades my other projects.

I think I'm gonna just grab the set like Ckau's and go from there, as long as I can get a year out of them I'll be happy, If I get 2 then even better. The front end on the yerf is fairly light so they shouldn't be punished too bad.

T.J.

Spent some time getting the rack & pinion mounted. In the stock yerf configuration the R&P is mounted off center on the box. Why? I have no clue but this won't work for me. The R&P HAS to be centered! No big deal, simply drill some centered mounting holes. Well, because the rack is mounted off center, the teeth on the shaft are cut accordingly also. This makes the pivot points of the tie rods grossly unequal when the steering is centered straight.:banghead: (1st pic)
So.. I had planned to cut a couple of more teeth on each side to give more travel to improve turning radius. Instead I cut four more teeth on the long side the centered the rack and cut off the excess shaft to make both sides equal. The tie rod swivil joints are screwed into the ends of the rack shaft with 1/2x20 studs. I drilled and tapped the cut end, reassembled the unit and mounted the rack. This gave me a equal rack with plenty of travel to crank the wheels around. It also moved the tie rod pivot points closer the the a-arm pivot points so hopefully binding and bump steer will be minimal during suspinsion travel. All thats left is to extend the tie rods to compensate for the heims and the front end is DONE! Life is good!
The steering u-joints hang lower than I hoped. I got really big feet so I was hoping for enough room to move my feet across under the steering shaft. NOPE! this means the gas on the right side of the shaft and brake on the left. That's o-k except pedal placement is going to be critical in order for me to have room to rest my big foot next to the brake pedal. I don't want to rest my foot on the brake pedal and unintentionaly ride the brakes. Gas is no problem, I keep it planted most of the time anyway:laughing: I was going to use stock yerf pedals, I like them and already have several sets. I'll probably have to fab up some pedals to make it work.

funny you point this out today. just spent most of the afternoon going "WTH!!!" when trying to put my tie rods on arm location with the rack at its center point. I still have the boots on it. as far as bump steer from the rack end position in relation to the a-arm pivots, remember that's only going to be straight-line, as soon as you turn the wheel the rack-end is going to go past the a-arm mount. I was sort of hoping to end up with the same deal and decided that it wasn't worth the effort to revise it just for straight line riding. for me, it's time to head back to the cave and finish installing heim bung #2 and maybe get the shock mounts in tonight. The rack headache comes last.

Loving this thing!!! Great work too. I love how we arrive at the same result by different methods!!! I just posted on "Yerf with a view" my method. Look at my rack base foot plate- something to consider while you're still fabricating.

Well, what I thought was an easy fix turns out to be a serious snafu! :banghead:
In my prevous post I shortened the rack in the steering in a attempt to center the pinion box. Don't do it!!!! This has caused the the pivot points of the tie rods to be incorrect. They have moved inboard enough to cause a bind and slightly pull up on the suspinsion while in a full turn position. A full turn to the right picks up on the left side a-arms and vise -versa. Not good! This will cause the buggy to roll out in a sharp turn at speeds. If anything, I need the suspinsion to work the opposite to maintain stability.
So.. I got two choices, one is to keep the rack as is and use a cleavis and heim on the rack ends of the tie rods to move the pivot ponts back out to the oringinal positons. Or use a another rack, leave the length alone and cut a bunch of teeth on the long side until the box is centered . I'm leaning towards the cleavis/heim solution as this will give me more adjustability.
A lesson learned here..:buttkick: Don't mess with the original geometry diminsions of the the steering. Even though it appears quite simple and plain, there has been some serious engineering applied into the original design.

Yep, right now the limiting factor on my suspension travel is the bind at the rack end of the tie rods. I'm losing about 1.5 inches of suspension droop to it. I was thinking about the clevis and heim set-up in terms of the stock tie rod and think one would be better off getting a new tie rod that's drilled and tapped for left and right hand threads for male rod ends. You could also then get away from using the 12 mm dia. hardware the stock setup needs. Pretty sure Grainger has pre threaded (SAE) rods in their catalog. the clevis can be made easily enough by doing some cutting and welding on the stock "socket".

Ckau-I hate to hear that all that work was in vane and an acceptable solution wasn't achieved. For some reason I'd not considered cutting off the length of the rack to get equal lengths from the pinion. The result of all your work doesn't seem to make logical sense. I noticed when I looked at the Punisher steering it has the set-up you were trying to get (other than it's front steer)-- their spindle/tie-rod tabs are much closer to the kingpin than the Yerf's and the R&P doesn't set up as high above the A-arms. I would think lowering the R&P (if possible) would remove the up lift at full/end cycle. Does this make sense?

lowering the unit would put the r&p at a more advantages angle to the a-arms but in this case I don't have the room to lower the rack. I only have a 16" wide area of space. that sounds like a bunch but the steering shaft, pedals, mounting brackets and linkage points plus my big feet have already used up the space. I have the feeling the tie-rod pivot points are simply too far away from the a-arm pivot points during full lock. The a-arms and tie-rods are swinging on two un related arcs while in this position The diminsions of the whole front end is exactly the same as in my other yerf and that one works perfectly. The only difference is the length of that rack rod and the pinion box being shifted to center aprox. 1 inch. I would think the lateral positon of the box should't have any effects as long as the tie rod pivot points end up in the proper postion at full lock.

Looking at what i think is your pre-cut picture above, if you cut the long side equal to the short one, is the rack/tie rod pivot point on the arm that ends up lifting at full lock "inside" (towards the center) of the upper a-arm pivot? If so, that's the issue, you've got a 3rd link (tie rod) acting on the spindle and at full lock it's the shortest length link. sounds like you need to go to a stock length rack and add the extra teeth. being centered won't cause the issue, nor will the height. Those factors may cause some bind issues as i've found out (flipping mine to turn the non-polish steering direction LOL but setting the rack higher really set me into some bind problems)

yea! that third link! It tugs on the arm as though the tierod is too short when at full lock. I'm gonna sit down sometime this week and fire up a autocad program and draw this thing out.
It will take some time to animate the drawing but it will tell the story

X-bird has the problem pin-pointed- I didn't even think to ask about the pivot point on the rack going beyond/inboard of the A-arm pivot point. That geometry is why my passenger side clevis bracket ended being longer,not because it was out of center. Also part of the reason why I eliminated the ball joints off the end of the rack was to get closer to the A-arm pivot point. If the tie-rod/steering arm travels beyond the A-arm pivot then your camber & caster alignment needs to change causing the condition you're having.

x-bird the aluminum steering arms/radius rods are pretty cheap ($10.-12.) at many of the racing sites, I bought what I thought I needed & extra's that were long and just cut one end, then taped the right-hand threads leaving the left-handers from the factory (LH end has that nice little notched ring on the end so you'll know which is which!!)

What type of rack/pinionn is that and where can i get info/price

About that steering R&P problem I was having with the tie rod bind. I got one of the engineers at work to use one of the cad computers to draw out the front suspinsion. After watching the animation it was obvious where the problem lay. X-bird called it, the tie rod pivot points were too far inboard. the pivot points needed to be .65" further out. So, as I didn't like the swival joint anyway and the easieast way to fix was to make a cleavis and place the pivot point correct. plus a big savings over buying another R&P, I made cleavis' and ordered left and right hand heims and bungs to make new tie- rods.
Since the steering snafu stopped work on the front, I jumped back to the swing arm. T3beatz posted he was interested in the Azusa axle so I am posted a few pics of the axle in place and the stock hub/ machine coupler mod. The center bearing support is in and the brake calipers are mounted. I haven't fabbed the outer supports yet.
I'm using two discs on the rear axle plus the front discs so I'll have brakes on all for corners. This thing should scoot pretty good but it won't be worth a dang if I can't stop it! The brake system will be two independent systems with two masters. one for front and one for back. the front system will have a lever style proportioning valve so I can adjust front to back brake bios on the fly. This will enable me to lock up the rear to aid in turning while keeping the front brakes loose so I don't loose steering control. A quick flip of the lever enables all for corners to lock up.

Thata a stock yerf dog 3206 R&P. ******** has them for about 65.00

Nice job- dual rear disks!! that's some serious braking without having front brakes too, I love the fact that you've made it seperate for custom braking when going around the track & on a hare scramble too.

hey Ckau, I have a spare spiderbox swing arm that I'm gonna build up for my new axle. I saw on your other buggy that you had built the extra bearing supports closer to the hubs, and you still had the stock ones in place along with the center one for extra support for the sprocket.
I was thinking If I just cut off the stock hangers and built the frame a little wider in that area closer to the hubs (like you did), would I still need the bearings in the stock places or could I just get away with the Three... One in the center, and two on the outside?

I like the dual break Idea in the back also, nice. I think it would be in the way of the muffler with a stock setup or would you just bend the pipe different?

Using the swing arm and hangers in the stock form serves several purposes. Retaining the stock swing arm width gives you the ability to use the wider 42" axle which in turn allows for a wider wheel without clearance issues against the swing arm or shock. No wheel spacers or such junk! I use a 9" wide wheel with a 3/6 offset, 11" wide tire and stay just under the 54" width limitations imposed by state/federal atv land use regulations.
The stock hanger serves as a strong mounting point and brace with extra welding suface to mount the outer bearing box to. Since the hanger is there. might as well put a bearing in it. Doesn't hurt and I think you can't support the axle too much.
I make my own exhausts. They run from under the head, turns up and run over the swing arm above the CVT. This configuration allows me to get the length and pipe diameters I want with only 3 bends.This means I can buy pre bent sections, fit them together to make a inexpensive and extremly effective exhaust. It gets the exhaust out and away from the motor which really aids cooling. The beauty of this pipe is it allows access to the CVT cover without having the exhaust in the way. I can perform maintinance and repairs without having to remove any componet off the motor. Having to pull a wheel and remove a shock just to snake the pipe off is a PITA! I also have the room to use any muffler/spark arrestor I choose.
Adding the drivers side brake disc will make the CVT cover removal a little harder but I feel the trade off is worth it

Where do you find the prebent sections and what ID are you using? I haven't been able to find anythong under 1 7/8" ID.

yeah, curious about the prebent sections also... I want to move my muffler up out of the way or to the other side of the buggy, but where you have it seems to be a great spot too. I just figured out why you mounted it to the engine and not the swingarm frame. lol

Also, I didn't think about this at first but with the new 1" axle it would be easy to remove, you can just slide it off once you remove all of the lock collars... I was still thinking about the old axle, where you have to beat the bearings out to remove it, I didn't want to make my job of removing the axle any harder by adding extra bearings that close and not being able to get to them.

using the 1" inner dia. pvc pipe over the axle serves as lateral spacers and also keeps the axle clean. it's the nicks, rust and crud that collects on the axle that makes it tough to remove. Regardless of how many bearings, the axel slips through without much effort. applying a coat of grease to the axle while assembling the spacers makes the job even easier.
The pipe I get bent at a fab shop. it's three pieces, two @ 90 degree bends and one @ 45 degree bends. all three have 8" straight ends on both sides of the bends and I cut to fit. I use .058 x1'' for the first two 90 bends then step up to 1'1/4 for the 45 degree piece then step up again to use a 1'1/2 reducer to mate a muffler. total length is 28". The first 90 comes directly out of the head turns towards the driver side parallel with the swing arm, the second 90 turns up at the same angle as the swingarm side tubes then the 45 levels out the pipe along the top of the swing arm. Kinda hard to draw this thing out without using 3d to show how the pipe fit but you get the idea

Thanks illustration and description is right on. I understand 100%.

Had a little time this weekend to fiddle on the buggy. I got the master brake cylinders mounted with the morse cable routed
And... finally got the front steering worked out. I had to fab some cleavis's and it took some shifting around to find the "sweet spot" to mount the R&P. I had to weld up and redrill holes about 3 times,I think. It's on the money now!
Still need to work out the pedal system. I decided I don't like where my original idea is headed. I'm cruising the web to see if there is a pedal system I like better. I've been taking a close look at pedals used in the mini outlaws. I like the simplicity of those but they can get pricey for what they are.

NICE workmanship. Love the dual master set-up. I know this isn't a make or break issue-What type of bellows/boots are you going to get to fit over your clevis?
The pedals in my mini are hanging/top mounted and really they're just a piece of 3/8 aluminum flat stock that's had (lightening) holes drilled in them w/ a piece of round stock threaded into them for your foot placement(similar to motorcycle forward control pedals), are you trying to find floor mounted? I see you've tried to re-use the stock pedals with your adjustable thru rod.

Top notch work man. I've always disliked the yerfs for the poor materials. But always thought them, the dune, and crossfire had the most potential. Looking good man

Looking good Ckau, That's really gonna be a very nice buggy once you get done with it!

Ditto, looks like top notch workmanship.

Great job Ckau, really great, got me to looking aweful hard at my Yerf....would be nice to do something just a little different. Gotta finish the Puddle Jumper first though.

It's a nylon woven cloth tube, waterproof, flexible, and very strong! Normally used to sleeve hydraulic hoses to protect them against chaffing and exposure. Theres a short piece over the master reservoir hoses. keeps hoses and wires neat, together and protected without using a bunch of zip ties.
your pedals are pretty close to what I was looking at on the outlaw sites. They think alot of those pedals @$35. each! Must be the chrome finish...
I was hoping to save a little time and trouble but for that price ? I'll fab my own.

Yea, Chuck your right! Those buggys are a great concept and design but they got a bad rep. cause of the cheezy materials.

Have you hit your local auto parts store for pedals? a lot of time they have the billet-style (not true most likely) drilled and or rubber studded pedal covers for about $10. Looking really nice btw.

That's funny that's what you're using for bellows as I had the same heat protective sleeves on the kid's Manco for a while till I bought the rubber ones- they don't last very long though with all the flexing.

I got the brake bias adjuster installed. It's positioned on the left just below the steering wheel. I should be able to adjust bias easily on the fly. I sure hope this deal works like I anticipate. As far as I know, no one has done this to a china buggy. If it doesn't work, it will be an expensive failure. those bias adjusters aren't cheap!

Slick idea!! never really thought about one in a mini-buggy.(used one in my dune buggy) I can see a huge advantage when on different terrain.If it works like it does on a full size vehical you're ready for the drag strip!!!!!

Dunno about the drag strip thing! :lol:
I'm kinda going at this back asswards. Normally in pavement cars, bias adjusters are used on the rear brakes to compensate for tire wear and fuel weight. They are used in sprint cars to bias between front left and right to help turn the car.
I installed it in hopes it will give the ability to eliminate the front brakes. There's times when all I want is rear braking to help slide around tight turns. if this thing works I should be able to use all four to slow down quickly then adjust to rear only to make the turns. It should also help in steering control. Buggys have a bad characteristic of loosing steering control when the front wheels are locked and sliding.

also good for hillclimbing ... lock up the fronts and put the power down at the rear when things start going the wrong direction.

Sweeeeet idea!

Good idea, can't wait to hear how it works.

Dang Ckau, I didn't know you were building this little gem. I may need to make it a little further west and see this one in person. :)

I made my brakes adjustable via threaded rods on the pedal to (Carter) master cylinder, but I have to stop and use a wrench. I'm interested to see if the prop valve will function as you intend it to. We used two prop valves on some of our pavement cars, one front to back and one left to right front. As you said , helps turn the car on corner entry. Until they outlawed the side to side adjustability.

Looking good so far man.