Drive/torque pully mod for more belt travel

[jmansracerocket]

even with my pulley I didn't see any increase in top speed but seems like the shorty clutch was a better mod I going to change back to the stock pulley with the shorty clutch and see what happens

[SLESTAK75]

@Jman. What setup are you using as far as weights and contra spring. Taking measurements shows that pulley does allow the belt to travel further and really should increase top speed. BUT. It only ALLOWS the belt to travel further it doesn't MAKE it. Since it is the DRIVEN pulley then it must have the right variator setup in order to make it open up. I have not played with mine yet but it is my next project to fiddle with it until I know its operating fully. Once I get that pulley opening all the way I want to lower my gearing a bit in order to get more pull but still have the stock top speed. Im hitting a little over 45 now and looking to get back around 40 with lower gears.

[mb1134]

I noticed no top speed increase when it was installed prior to the engine rebuild. I have yet to get the top speed, as i need to rejet the carb now that it has an hour plus of running time on the new engine. I honestly saw nothing of an increase after changing to the DR2 and motorio pulley. I am still half tempted to go back to the Dr Pulley. I believe once i have the jet tuned i will be able to reach 45 with no issues. One good thing about reading the speed is that my new Trailtech Vapor is only .2 mph faster than the stock speedo. Then again i may not see much increase in speed due to the gearing of the buggy. They claim top speed on the XRX 150 is 43.5mph.

[jmansracerocket]

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

@Jman. What setup are you using as far as weights and contra spring. Taking measurements shows that pulley does allow the belt to travel further and really should increase top speed. BUT. It only ALLOWS the belt to travel further it doesn't MAKE it. Since it is the DRIVEN pulley then it must have the right variator setup in order to make it open up. I have not played with mine yet but it is my next project to fiddle with it until I know its operating fully. Once I get that pulley opening all the way I want to lower my gearing a bit in order to get more pull but still have the stock top speed. Im hitting a little over 45 now and looking to get back around 40 with lower gears.

I have a bunch of new parts sitting on my bench right now, I have tom's 2 valve head that I hand ported myself and he shaved it .030, I have a new gates belt, stock new variator and fan and I have 11 gram sliders coming and I just installed reverse yesterday and I ordered a 39 tooth sprocket with a new chain my goal is to have a top speed of 40 but I want it to get there quickly that's why I went with 39 tooth sprocket

[SLESTAK75]

I will be curious to hear how fast you get it mixing the 39t with the pulley.

[jmansracerocket]

Even if I top out at 35mph with the 39 tooth sprocket it will def get there quick

[SLESTAK75]

No doubt. 35mph would be good with a 39t sprocket.

[jmansracerocket]

I should clear up my previous statement I stated I want a top speed of 40mph and i know that's not going to happen with the 39tooth sprocket its just my overall goal to do 40 mph down my straightaway in the trails once I rebuild the motor and have the 39 tooth sprocket on it

[mb1134]

So has anyone thoroughly tested the 2 groove settings on the pulley? I dont feel like going through the trouble of swapping back to the race groove to check it out. What is suppose to be the advantages of each groove?

[SLESTAK75]

I have not yet. It will take me a while. I live in a neighborhood so I dont get to ride alot and it makes good comparisons hard to get. I will be comparing but it will be a while. I dont think the difference is going to be dramatic but I am curious as to what it is. I know Im not getting full range of motion on the variator so I wanted to do some testing anyways.

[SLESTAK75]

Originally Posted by jmansracerocket

I should clear up my previous statement I stated I want a top speed of 40mph and i know that's not going to happen with the 39tooth sprocket its just my overall goal to do 40 mph down my straightaway in the trails once I rebuild the motor and have the 39 tooth sprocket on it

I think Johnny has a great approach. He changed his internal gearing so it is similar to having a 35t sprocket. Cutting the difference between 39 & 31 in half. I think he said he topped around 40mph but had much better pull. If a 35t sprocket could be found it would be great.

[Johnny 5]

The race groove is to keep the belt at top ratio without down shifting as fast for lower rpm cruising. I only wanted the pulley for more belt travel and also because the bearing was worn and very loose on my old pulley.

This weekend GOD willing we are going to the desert and will test the 13/43 gearing.

Top speed in my red buggy was 39/40 mph in a 100 yard straight away in dirt with 31/16 sprockets and 13/40 internal gears with some motor rpms to spare just couldn't pull any more.

The 39/16t and 13/40 gears same 100 yard test trail it topped 33mph at 8800rpms.

So with the new 13/43 I am hoping to get the 40mph at max rpms but have a better sweet spot while cruising and taking off. It already feels better on my short test runs.

[jmansracerocket]

Have u guys realized any more wear on ur belt with the motorio pulley ?

[mb1134]

Originally Posted by jmansracerocket

Have u guys realized any more wear on ur belt with the motorio pulley ?

I have. I noticed it the other day when i was checking the cvt after running the new engine for a bit. My edges looked rougher than they did before i swapped the pulley out. And i really havent put much driving time one my buggy.

[jmansracerocket]

Excatly that's what was happening to mine I think I might switch back to the stock pulley. Also looked like it would stretch the belt also and I really didn't see an improvement

[MASTERBATES]

I chose the NCY pulley on mine, I had my cover off lastnite to check it all out, and my belt looks fine. I have roughly 5 fullhrs ride time with my set up and it all looks A-ok to me. Idk what the difference is between the motorio pulley and NCY pulley, my NCy also has the race groove

[SLESTAK75]

I'll have mine apart soon and I'll see if I notice any wear. I did notice that the surface of the pulley was more rough than the stock. But the same can be said of some new variators. The belt eventually smooths out the ramp faces but of coarse till then the belt suffers wear. I did notice a difference on mine with the pulley but I still don't think I'm getting all possible out of it. I'm going to do some testing on it and see what can be done to get everything out of it. I will post back but it may take a while. I think I am going to just stay with the stock groove as what Johnny said made sense.

[SLESTAK75]

Originally Posted by MASTERBATES

I chose the NCY pulley on mine, I had my cover off lastnite to check it all out, and my belt looks fine. I have roughly 5 fullhrs ride time with my set up and it all looks A-ok to me. Idk what the difference is between the motorio pulley and NCY pulley, my NCy also has the race groove

Did you notice a top end difference with the NCY pulley?

[Johnny 5]

I noticed the belt I replaced 11 months ago is cracked on the edges I didn't think this was from the pulley. But this may be from using a old belt on the new pulley. I will try a new belt next time I take it apart, this trip I put a used belt in. This will be our last trip until September due to the temps get unfriendly from May to late September.

I have 3 used belts so I will take them just to be sure that if the raw unmanageable insane torque and horse power destroy the belt I will be ready to buggy on!!!!!.

[jmansracerocket]

The motorio pulley def puts more wear on the belt compared to the stock one

[SLESTAK75]

Alright. I have been a very busy boy of late. And not buggy related mind you. I had my brother in law over the other day and took him for a ride around the hood. Buggy wouldn't downshift all the way and wouldn't pull a hill at all. Tore it down and a slider had rolled over and got stuck. Decided I wanted to try going back to the race groove and grease the inside of the pulley really well; as I didn't do that to begin with. I wondered which of my variators would do the best job and I came up with a simple but very effective method to test. I sat the variator (assembled with cam, pin, and drive face) on the floor as if it were installed on the engine. I placed downward pressure on the driveface in order to keep it all together. I then slid the belt in until it stopped, held it in place and carefully lifted the driveface away and took note of where the belt was sitting. This gave me a general idea of where the belt rode in low gear. I did this comparing both variators. I then took the variators and driveface and held them together as in high gear and placed the belt gently down between them and noted the position. This gave me a rough idea of where the highest possible position of the belt could be in high gear. What I learned from this is that my stoch 107mm variator had both a lower low and a higher high than the cheapo Koso 115mm variator. There is no way that the belt can travel to the top of the Koso because it would have to float in space not touching the ramps anymore. Not saying that other, better variators won't allow full travel but of the two that I had, the stock offered better performance. This is an easy way to compare variators. I did not notice any extra wear on my belt from the Motorio pulley. I lubed up the sliding part of the rear sheave really well, put it back on the racing grooves and reassembled. The test went as such. As I revved the engine the belt stopped travelling only slightly further up than with the previous setup. BUT, as I held the throttle wide open the belt stayed put and as it topped out the belt crept up another 2-3mm on the variator. Seems to me that with a slightly heavier sliders I may get that travel at slightly lower rpms. Because the rpm's I was pulling, I don't think I have enough power to get that high on the road. I may try some 12's in the future but that is as far as I will go. The test drive yielded a very smooth shift with more pull off the line and similar top end speeds as before. So now I have the stock variator, the lightweight driveface with the 1-2mm nub where the boss pin sits, the 1-2 mm shorter boss pin that came with the Koso, and the variator cam that came with the Koso, along with a well lubed Motorio pulley set in the race groove. And it is GOOD.

[Johnny 5]

What's up Slestak, we went to a cool new ridding place called Gorman and I noticed my wifes buggy would take off slow and under load. Turns out one of the sliders fell back in the s slot. This is the third time it has happened. We put the 10.5 and 12.5 rollers in to make it through the ride, thankfull my brother in law gave me a 24v cordless 1/2 impact gun so I can change the rollers/sliders.

I had bought 2 fmf universal spark arrestors so we would be in compliance with the park and made custom header pipes from a old bar stool tubing and turn down tail pipes. These mufflers are so loud that it hurts your ears after a while, that is why I made turn down tail pipes. After the first hour of ridding my tail pipes came loose due to the aluminum rivets failed. So I removed the end cap and took off the tail pipes and it was so loud and with no back pressure the power was a joke due to the 4000ft altitude. I didn't jet down to be safe and the buggys ran pooly in the day, but at night the power came back when the temp dropped from 82 to 58 degrees.

Other than the buggys running slow it was a great trip. Back to the muffler performance garage to see if my welder can weld stainless.

[mb1134]

Slestak! i thought you dropped off the face of the earth. Good to hear you are happy by switching the groove beack to the race setting. I am tempted to do this, but i took your advice last time and switched out of the race groove. maybe you should run it in the race groove and switch it back to the other groove for a bit and give us your impression? I would hate to swap mine, just to find out im unhappy with it. Nothing like working on this damn buggy! still have to fully test out the J Costa variator not that i finally have my engine put back together.

[toomanytoys2]

Johnny,

Hate to hijack the thread, but I use a stock Yamaha TTR125 muffler/spark arrestor that has been slightly modified on my 170cc HH. I will be starting a post on the HH in the next couple of days. Just in case the FMFs give you more grief.

[SLESTAK75]

@Johnny That's cool you found an awesome riding place. I'm still sneaking around the neighborhood. Sucks you weren't running good though. Seems odd that you would have to make your buggy LOUDER in order to meet track requirements. I like the idea of using barstool tubing for exhaust pipe. I may incorporate that one day.

@MB No I didn't drop off the Earth. The wife got a job and has been working ALOT. Great to finally have income. This leaves homeschooling the kids solely in my hands though. So I have had very little time for much else. 3 kids and all.

[Johnny 5]

Slestak your 3 kids are everything, buggy stuff is for fun. Keep up the good work on taking care of your family. God bless you and your family.

[SLESTAK75]

Thanks Johnny.

[mb1134]

Slestak. How is the pulley doing with the switch back to the racing groove? I am swapping my clutch springs back to stock, probably putting in a red 2k spring, and ned to swap my clutch bell out. May make the change while its apart. Also how is that A12 cam? I am comtemplating ordering that or the A11 for some better low end. But im afraid the A11 may spec to close to the A10 i have and it will be a total waste.

[buggyMike34]

mb...2 things...
I have a red 2000rpm spring-didn't like it at all. Too much lag to spool up the 2000rpm. Definite pedal delay-NOT GOOD!

I have one for sale if you really want it. About 8 hours on it.
Also, the A10 cam is junk in your opinion? Curious why you say that. I had one in my Carter Talon 155(CVT mods etc.)and the A10 was a killer! So much so that I bought another and it is brand new waiting to be put in.
Just curious.
-34

[mb1134]

Originally Posted by buggyMike34

mb...2 things...
I have a red 2000rpm spring-didn't like it at all. Too much lag to spool up the 2000rpm. Definite pedal delay-NOT GOOD!

I have one for sale if you really want it. About 8 hours on it.
Also, the A10 cam is junk in your opinion? Curious why you say that. I had one in my Carter Talon 155(CVT mods etc.)and the A10 was a killer! So much so that I bought another and it is brand new waiting to be put in.
Just curious.
-34

The lag is due to you having the red clutch springs, which from what i understand take near 3000 full rpm to flip the clutch out depending on your buggies idling rpm. The clutch spring rpm is is supposedly added on top of your idling rpm and is supposed to give you your clutch engagement. This is believable as i have the 1500rpm springs and my clutch doesnt engage until over 2000rpm. I have to change mine back to the stock springs as it burnt through my new bell pretty fast. You may want to check yours. Mine is a very dark purple and only had maybe 4 or 5 hours of riding time on it. The main spring only keeps you in low longer for supposed better torque. Im not so much down on the A10, i am just lookin for ways to squeeze some more low end out of the buggy. I can hit 45 with my setup, but would be happier with more torque and maybe a top speed of 40 or so.

[buggyMike34]

mb...
I have been schooled! Hahaha thanks for the info! I didn't realize that the clutch springs were the culprit. Makes sense to me now that you say it.
And about the A10...I agree, the A10 does allow for some more speed-I kinda liked the "best of both worlds" torque it provided as well. Guess it all boils down to style, terrain, etc...but the info has been valuable.
Really helping me decide on all the final pieces to the new 180cc puzzle.
Thanks again
-34

[SLESTAK75]

Howdy MB. I haven't been able to get anymore riding in since my test, but when I tested it I didn't notice much difference in overall performance. My reason for changing back was that the pulley was not opening up that last little bit to squeeze that last bit of speed out. I felt that the straight slot at the end of the race groove would allow an easier transition to that last bit. I was right as testing it up on blocks showed. As I revved it up it opened as normal and then stopped opening at the normal spot, but as the rpm's increased after this it hit a point where that belt slid up 2-3mm's more. The problem was that the rpm's it took to get this out of it were too high to reproduce on the road with the 11g weights I have. So I am (in the future) going to be getting some 13's and trying (first) half 11's and half 13's to get an overall effect as though I have 12's in it. If I feel the need for a bit more I will put all 13's in it. I could stand to drop a few rpm's through my shift anyways so the heavier weights I think will be a good thing. Going to be at least a few weeks before I can get to that though.

[SLESTAK75]

@MB. As regards the cam. I never tried an A10. But My opinion is that the A12 was just made for these buggies. The added torque in the low range is best as most of the time its hard to get these things up to high rpm's for any length of time. Given the weight and the way we ride them. I feel that the A10 (by specs) is a great choice for a scooter. I was actually looking at the A13 and it looks like a great choice also. It has similar duration to the A12 (which is where the bottom end torque comes from) but has more lift. It "seems" that it would generate a bit more bottom and top end than the A12. I may get one of those at some point. I am also considering a 26mm carb. I feel that it would compliment the cam and head without being too much.

[SLESTAK75]

in the cam section of the most common mods thread I added some links to charts comparing lift and duration of all the cams A8-A15. Good reference.

[mb1134]

Slestak, any ideas on where to get the A-13? I dont see any of the usual dealers carrying them. im a little hesitant to buy of of ebay, although the price is much cheaper. Let me know whee you seen them at.

[SLESTAK75]

Sent a pm MB.

[Danp]

Hey guys,

Took me a while to read through this thread. Lots of good information. Wanted to know, has there been a consensus on which variator and pully to run with; Dr2 or the motorio from ebay? Which, by the way, I can only find coming from Porto Rico and the shipping is 60 bucks to Canada!!

Right now I'm running a dr. Pulley variator and drive face and 12g sliders with a 1500 rpm sping in the clutch. I'm running at around 45 to 48 mph, but I'm looking for some more bottom end like everyone else.

[Miamieddie]

Get the dr2 and run the 10/12 sliders. That should give you more torque and keep ur top end where its at.

[Miamieddie]

Oh I'm answering to you danp. Get the 10/12 dr2.

[Danp]

Will it be a definite difference from the dr. Pulley setup I have. I already spent a few bucks. Wish I found this thread before sinking cash into the dr. Pulley setup.

[Miamieddie]

Idk anything about dr. Pulley variator I here thyre good. But the dr2 gives you high and low range. By putting 10/12 weights you'll have lower torque than what you have and keep the top end that you already have. From what I've read the dr2 gives you both worlds.

[Johnny 5]

I had good results with changing my internal gears from 13/40 to 13/43. It was like putting 3 teeth on the rear sprocket. I had gone from a 31t rear sprocket to a 39t and it was great for low end but top speed was 28/30mph at 8600rpms. The 31t would get me to 40mph at about 7200rpms and couldn't pull any more. So with the 31t back on and 13/43 internal gears it works great. But if you buggy has a built in reverse the gears wont work.

I think your dr pulley and 12g sliders are a good set up. I ran 10g sliders in my wifes buggy with the doctor pulley and stock gearing and it also worked great.

If you do get a dr2 get the one with the larger 20mm rollers. I have been running my dr2 with 8/9g rollers for over three ridding seasons and they haven't flat spotted yet. The upshift is noticeable on the dr2 with the 20mm rollers.

I bought last year on gy6 racing team for my wife's blue dune a 18mm dr2 and ran 10/12 sliders and one of the 12g sliders keep falling back and causes the pulley to be stuck in the middle of the shift like you are taking off in 2nd gear,this has happened three times.

So I put the 10.5/12g rollers in and no problem just a lot of rpm to engage the clutch. I am going to get a new clutch due to the pad wear before I put heavier rollers in.

I was running a doctor pulley in my wifes dune and it worked great and had better take off that a stock variator due to the belt sits deeper in the variator for lower ratio than stock. I replaced it because the drive face was worn. I should of just bought a new drive pulley, not that much performance change with the 18mm dr2. But with all the mods I do at the same time its hard to tell what made the difference. We drive 3 hours to get to the desert and I do all my testing at home on our short street so it is hard to tell until we get out there.

[Danp]

In the grand scheme of things, I'm happy with the setup. I'll wait til next summer to try the DR2.

[mb1134]

Don't waste your money on the DR2. I had both and honestly couldnt tell much difference between them. But if you waste the money on the DR2, make sure you use the 10/12 slider combo like MiamiEddie pointed out. You will not notice the shift point with that set up. When i used the rollers that came with it i noticed the small loss in power everytime it upshifted. I tried all combinations of the rollers and did not like any of them. Best bet is to try the 10g sliders in your Dr Pulley first. If you dont like it move on to the DR2.

[Johnny 5]

I think the rollers are too light for our buggies to notice the change, these parts are for scooters that weigh less than half the weight of our buggies. I am going to get a new clutch for my 183cc blue dune before I put heavier rollers in due to clutch slip on take off causing the variator to upshift fast and then bog down.
I liked the 10/12 gram sliders for the all around performance but after three times having one of the 12g slider get stuck by flipping over and causing the belt to be in mid travel I went back to the rollers.
Also the 10.5/12 rollers upshift slower than the 10/12 sliders as far as I can remember on our buggy.
I have a set of new stock rollers that are I believe are 13g, will try them in place of the 12g. after the clutch is replaced.

[Johnny 5]

I also have found that a slipping clutch will cause performance loss buy upshifting too fast and making it feel like power is down. On my red 155cc buggy it will hang on the hole shot and 100ft later will pull away by one or two buggy lengths. This had me so upset after spending 500.00 bucks or more replacing the crank cam big bore kit and the ncy boring tool on the 183cc buggy.
The clutch in the red buggy is from buggy depot with the thicker longer pads. The clutch on the blue buggy is a original howhit off our 2006 red dune 150 we sold with a new clutch. The pads are more than half way worn out witch also needs more rpm to engage and we loose the lower cvt ratio by the faster upshift.

[Miamieddie]

Lets not forget that a 13 gram roller is equivalent to a 15 gram slider only a reminder this stuff gets a little confusing at times... let us know how it goes for you johnny5.

[Miamieddie]

Also to save you money try first sanding the clutch bell with 80 grit befor buying another clutch. Just a thought. I noticed you did some work to ur motor you should be good with 13gram rollers. My motor is stock I would bogg with those weights. Let us know.

[Johnny 5]

The bell is a ncy bell with drilled cooling holes and it is good condition, the pads are getting thin and it takes more rpm to get them to grab and with the torque of the 183cc motor it slips on hard take off. So with a new clutch the 10.5 12 rollers should be good.
I like sliders over rollers but for some reason they keep falling back and get stuck in mid travel on this motorio 18x14 variator.
The kid n me 20x17 variator in my buggy is awesome with the lightest rollers 8/9g. I tried the 9/11g first then the 8/10g and still upshifted too fast so I put 8/9gs in and it works great. The big torque spring is a yellow 1500rpm and is a couple years old, may be time for a new torque spring. Wait a minuet I need to leave the red buggy alone because it is a power house even when it gets warm. The blue buggy with all the motor work is great on hills and coming out of a corner but high rpm falls off due to the bigger stroke and piston weight.

When I build the red buggy motor I will go with the 3mm crank but keep the smaller piston to keep the friction and drag down. The 183cc motor also doesn't feel smooth at rpm like the 155cc motor. Even at idle it has a different vibration and sound.