Oil Cooler

[ckau]

I like the way this group seems to get on the same page at the same time. With the big bore’s going on there’s been some discussion on oil cooling. I too have been working on the oil cooling system for my “first glimpse” project. I thought I would share my concept on how I am going to accomplish this.
I never liked the idea of those add-on kits that replace the screen cap on the bottom of the motor. The idea of hoses running underneath exposed seemed like disaster if they should ever get snagged on a root or whatever.
I do like the idea of the hoses connected into the front base of the case. I’ve seen a few gy6’s in atv’s that had this type of hook up and it seemed a little more trail friendly .
So I got a center case and took a hard look to figure how to do this. Oill travels from the pump to the front of the case at the driver side, crosses over to the passenger side then travel up , splits to feed the main bearing and the head. I first machined the surface of the case flat to allows for AN6 fittings then bored a hole and tapped them on each side of that crossover port The holes are positioned so the oil travels straight from the pump (port A) to the cooler then back to the case (port B) to feed the bearing and head.. I then plugged the crossover between the tapped holes to divert the oil to travel to the cooler then back to the case I like this way better than the sump fed coolers cause the oil is cooled directly before it gets to the cylinder rather than cooling sump oil. Because the system is now pressurized there won’t be any problem of the lines or cooler draining back into the sump creating any sort of dry starts while the system get filled. Any back flow will either fill/prime the oil pump or keep the galleys to the head full. And because the system is pressurized I can mount the cooler up high out of harms way and in some fresh air. The cooler is mounted up on the frame over my right shoulder . The pic shows the cooler but the picture was taken when I was checking mount tabs fitment. The cooler will be flipped with the hose connections on top so the cooler can’t drain back. The cooler will always stay full. It’s kinda hard to describe all this so I got pics! I painted in the oil path to show where the fittings are placed and what happens..

[Masteryota]

I actually love these ideas. I am toying with the idea of bumping the compression in my donor ATC engine, which would create more heat, and the fact it won't be out in the open air anymore. Either way, I would need to mount a cooling fan somewhere over the engine, or opt for an external cooler, with or without a fan.

[MASTERBATES]

Hey ckau, u got ,e brainstorming on this thread,lol I took a couple heads over to a friends for p&p one off my trail master another of an extra engine from a tips hammerhead gt200. Looking closer at the heads I found them both to be manufactured by the same company (rongfa)... so the hammerhead engine has the holes already drilled with banjo bolts and a u-shaped tube connecting both together.my old HH had and oil cooler located beneath the engine. It was bulky and thick,(never thought it would help a whole lot). So I'm probably going to do some digging and compare the side cases to see of it will interchange. I'm just wondering how I should route a cooler and which would be better,a tranny cooler, or a decent sized power steering cooler,either I could easily get from the local scrap yard, just give them a good flush.

[rich1]

Actually..: this" idea" was borrowed from a later model Dazon 150 that Van owns.The mounting point they used was less than ideal, and the cooler got damaged.I relocated it behind the top of the seat, as a last resort.Being a fully pressurized system there was not any problems noted then or since it was done 2 yrs ago. It was interesting that Dazon did not put the oil cooler on its performace single seat 150 or 175 cc buggys. However, it would really be more useful on a heavier 2 seater that would be mostly used for low speed trails.

[rich1]

Originally Posted by MASTERBATES

. I'm just wondering how I should route a cooler and which would be better,a tranny cooler, or a decent sized power steering cooler,either I could easily get from the local scrap yard, just give them a good flush.

A little advise.:..a trans coolers internal passages are alot smaller than an oil coolers is. If you compair the 2 fluids you can see that the trans / ps fluid is about 5w20 at the most . Since most air cooled engines require 10w40 you can see that the oil will flow slower threw the trans cooler. In some cases when temp effects the oil, the cooler will have an metered restriction inside /outside the cooler . This may even by-pass the amount of oil going thru the cooler when cold . As the oil gets hotter it flows more freely thru the coolers core.
It is a known fact that any cooler ,( oil ,trans, AC, or PS,) is subject to internal damage when components fail. The metal particals remain inside the cooler, damaging new components..Flushing can help but even the lines to and from the cooler can be ruined, it is better to replace them too.

[ckau]

Originally Posted by rich1

Actually..: this" idea" was borrowed from a later model Dazon 150 that Van owns.The mounting point they used was less than ideal, and the cooler got damaged.I relocated it behind the top of the seat, as a last resort.Being a fully pressurized system there was not any problems noted then or since it was done 2 yrs ago. It was interesting that Dazon did not put the oil cooler on its performance single seat 150 or 175 cc buggys. However, it would really be more useful on a heavier 2 seater that would be mostly used for low speed trails.

Actually.. this "idea" originated long before Vans Dazon. This system has been in use by many different brands and makes of buggys and ATVs for many years. All of which have in common the gy6.
This "idea" is not mine. My only intent in this post was to show how this one particular setup worked in order to help those who are considering a oil cooling system.
There are motors that can be purchased with this system included and there are bare cases with the ports available too. The only difference between mine and theirs is the fitting port size. The china versions are tapped metric, 8 x 1.25. Mine is tapped for standard AN fittings, 7/16 X 18. Very few suppliers stock the metrics. Most all are a special order off the slow boat from china. Any performance supplier in the US carry's AN fittings. So it's obvious why I chose to machine my own.
I take it from your statement: "Being a fully pressurized system there was not any problems noted then or since it was done 2 yrs ago", you have reversed your original argument? Insisting that "pressurized systems Don't work ! "

[rich1]

Originally Posted by ckau

Actually.. this "idea" originated long before Vans Dazon. This system has been in use by many different brands and makes of buggys and ATVs for many years. All of which have in common the gy6.
This "idea" is not mine. My only intent in this post was to show how this one particular setup worked in order to help those who are considering a oil cooling system.
There are motors that can be purchased with this system included and there are bare cases with the ports available too. The only difference between mine and theirs is the fitting port size. The china versions are tapped metric, 8 x 1.25. Mine is tapped for standard AN fittings, 7/16 X 18. Very few suppliers stock the metrics. Most all are a special order off the slow boat from china. Any performance supplier in the US carry's AN fittings. So it's obvious why I chose to machine my own.
I take it from your statement: "Being a fully pressurized system there was not any problems noted then or since it was done 2 yrs ago", you have reversed your original argument? Insisting that "pressurized systems Don't work ! "

Dont get it twisted ..I never said they dont work ...I said that they have to have a feed (pressure ) and return (residual pressure) lines. There also has to be a restriction present in the system to prevent drainback . That can be in the lines ,the cooler tubing, or a restriction block.
The no problems iwas talking about was the higher mounting of the cooler !
All youre pics ,drawings , ect are based on the notion that you THINK it will work . I understand that to you its just an experiment and if it fails it will be treated as such . However, I do think its mis-leading to just show an un-tested model to others .

[Masteryota]

Originally Posted by rich1

A little advise.:..a trans coolers internal passages are alot smaller than an oil coolers is. If you compair the 2 fluids you can see that the trans / ps fluid is about 5w20 at the most . Since most air cooled engines require 10w40 you can see that the oil will flow slower threw the trans cooler. In some cases when temp effects the oil, the cooler will have an metered restriction inside /outside the cooler . This may even by-pass the amount of oil going thru the cooler when cold . As the oil gets hotter it flows more freely thru the coolers core.
It is a known fact that any cooler ,( oil ,trans, AC, or PS,) is subject to internal damage when components fail. The metal particals remain inside the cooler, damaging new components..Flushing can help but even the lines to and from the cooler can be ruined, it is better to replace them too.

I'm glad you brought that up, seeing as there are so many designs out there today, from the conventional pipe through fins design, to the later style, which I like to call the fill/flood style, which has the inlet and outlet connected to the sides of the cooling passages, similar to a conventional radiator. I was looking at the power steering coolers due to the lack of restrictions and straight through design, and most are 4 to 6 passes through the fins, more than enough to make a difference, yet allow full pressure flow. This was a major concern, as for my ATC engine has but one place to tap into the oil circuit, and that is a passage between the pump and the crank bearings, not somewhere I want to risk starvation on start up due to the cooler having to fill first, not to mention, I am a little hesitant to put more strain on an already old pump.

[rich1]

Originally Posted by Masteryota

I'm glad you brought that up, seeing as there are so many designs out there today, from the conventional pipe through fins design, to the later style, which I like to call the fill/flood style, which has the inlet and outlet connected to the sides of the cooling passages, similar to a conventional radiator. I was looking at the power steering coolers due to the lack of restrictions and straight through design, and most are 4 to 6 passes through the fins, more than enough to make a difference, yet allow full pressure flow. This was a major concern, as for my ATC engine has but one place to tap into the oil circuit, and that is a passage between the pump and the crank bearings, not somewhere I want to risk starvation on start up due to the cooler having to fill first, not to mention, I am a little hesitant to put more strain on an already old pump.

Im glad to see you have some backgorund in this.You are right, lots of designs around.I wanted to put an oil cooler on my 2004 Mach 1 Mustang . I found out that earlier 2001 cars that had them were actually oil heaters to get the oil temp up quicker for emissions testing . I was Ford Certified Diagonstic Tech for 3 yrs.